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#### Saṁyutta Nikāya
4. Saḷāyatana Vagga
41. Citta Saṁyutta

#### The Book of the Kindred Sayings
4. The Book Called the Saḷāyatana-Vagga
Containing Kindred Sayings on the 'Six-Fold Sphere' of Sense and Other Subjects
41. Kindred Sayings about Citta

#### Sutta 3

#### Dutiya Isidatta Suttaṁ

# Isidatta (ii)

Translated by F. L. Woodward
Edited by Mrs. Rhys Davids

Copyright The Pali Text Society
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[193]

[1][than] Thus have I heard:

Once a number of elder brethren were staying at Macchikasaṇḍa
in Wild Mango Grove.

Then Citta, the housefather, went to visit those elder Brethren,
and on coming to them
saluted them
and sat down at one side.

So seated Citta, the housefather, said to those elder brethren:

"Let my lords the elders accept of me tomorrow's meal."

And those elder brethren accepted by silence.

[194] Thereupon Citta, the housefather,
understanding the acceptance of those elder Brethren,
rose from his seat,
saluted the elder brethren by the right
and went away.

Now the elder Brethren, when the night was gone,
robed themselves at early dawn,
and taking bowl and outer robe
went to the dwelling of Citta, the housefather,
and on reaching it
sat down on seats prepared.

Then Citta, the housefather, came to those elder Brethren,
and saluting them
sat down at one side.

So seated, Citta, the housefather,
said to the venerable (chief) elder: -

"As to these divers views
that arise in the world, my lord elder,
such as:

Eternal is the world,
not eternal is the world,
finite is the world,
infinite is the world,
life and body are the same,
life and body are different,
the Tathāgata, exists after death,
he exists not,
he both exists and exists not,
he neither exists nor exists not,
also as to the sixty-two heretical views
set forth in the Brahmajala,[1] -

Owing to the existence of what, lord,
do these views prevail?

Owing to the nonexistence of what
do these views not prevail?"

At these words
the venerable chief elder was silent.

■

Then a second time did Citta, the housefather,
say to the venerable (chief) elder: -

"As to these divers views
that arise in the world, my lord elder,
such as:

Eternal is the world,
not eternal is the world,
finite is the world,
infinite is the world,
life and body are the same,
life and body are different,
the Tathāgata, exists after death,
he exists not,
he both exists and exists not,
he neither exists nor exists not,
also as to the sixty-two heretical views
set forth in the Brahmajala, -

Owing to the existence of what, lord,
do these views prevail?

Owing to the nonexistence of what
do these views not prevail?"

And a second time,
at these words
the venerable chief elder was silent.

■

Then a third time did Citta, the housefather,
say to the venerable (chief) elder: -

"As to these divers views
that arise in the world, my lord elder,
such as:

Eternal is the world,
not eternal is the world,
finite is the world,
infinite is the world,
life and body are the same,
life and body are different,
the Tathāgata, exists after death,
he exists not,
he both exists and exists not,
he neither exists nor exists not,
also as to the sixty-two heretical views
set forth in the Brahmajala, -

Owing to the existence of what, lord,
do these views prevail?

Owing to the nonexistence of what
do these views not prevail?"

And a third time,
at these words
the venerable chief elder was silent.

§

Now on that occasion the venerable Isidatta
was the junior of all that order of brethren.

Then the venerable Isidatta
said to the venerable chief elder: -

"My lord, may I reply
to this question of Citta, the housefather?"

"Do you reply, Isidatta,
to the question of Citta, the housefather."

[Then said the venerable Isidatta]:

"Now, housefather, your question was this,
was it not?

'As to these divers views
that arise in the world, my lord elder,
such as:

Eternal is the world,
not eternal is the world,
finite is the world,
infinite is the world,
life and body are the same,
life and body are different,
the Tathāgata, exists after death,
he exists not,
he both exists and exists not,
he neither exists nor exists not,
also as to the sixty-two heretical views
set forth in the Brahmajala, -

Owing to the existence of what, lord,
do these views prevail?

Owing to the nonexistence of what
do these views not prevail?'"

"Yes, lord."

"Now, housefather,
as to those divers views
that arise in the world, such as:

Eternal is the world,
not eternal is the world,
finite is the world,
infinite is the world,
life and body are the same,
life and body are different,
the Tathāgata, exists after death,
he exists not,
he both exists and exists not,
he neither exists nor exists not,
also as to the sixty-two heretical views
set forth in the Brahmajala, -

See also the Conclusion of the Brahmajala Sutta, where it is said: "These shaman and Brahman, Beggars, experience what they experience as a consequence of contact through the six senses." It amounts to the same thing.

— p.p.

it is owing to the person-pack view[2] that [195] they arise,
and if the person-pack view exists not,
they do not exist."

§

"But, lord, how comes the person-pack view to be?"

"Herein, housefather, the untaught manyfolk,[3]
who discern not those who are Ariyans,
who are unskilled ill the Ariyan doctrine,
who are untrained in the Ariyan doctrine,
who discern not those who are worthy ones,
who are unskilled in the worthy doctrine,
untrained in the worthy doctrine, -

They regard body as the self,
they regard the self as having body,
body as being in the self,
the self as being in the body.

They regard feeling as the self -
they regard feeling as the self,
they regard feeling as having body,
feeling as being in the self,
the self as being in feeling.

They regard perception as the self -
they regard perception as the self,
they regard perception as having body,
perception as being in the self,
the self as being in perception.

They regard the activities as the self -
they regard the activities as the self,
they regard the activities as having body,
the activities as being in the self,
the self as being in the activities.

They regard consciousness as the self -
they regard consciousness as the self,
they regard consciousness as having body,
consciousness as being in the self,
the self as being in consciousness.

That, housefather, is how the person-pack view arises."

§

"But, lord, how is there no person-pack view?"

"Herein, housefather, the well-taught Ariyan disciple,
who discerns those who are Ariyans,
who is skilled in the Ariyan doctrine,
who is trained in the Ariyan doctrine,
who discerns those who are worthy ones,
who is skilled in the worthy doctrine,
well trained in the worthy doctrine, -

such regards not body as the self,
regards not the self as having body,
nor body as being in the self,
nor the self as being in body.

He regards not feeling as the self -
he regards not feeling as the self,
he regards not feeling as having body,
nor feeling as being in the self,
nor the self as being in feeling.

He regards not perception as the self -
he regards not perception as the self,
he regards not perception as having body,
nor perception as being in the self,
nor the self as being in perception.

He regards not the activities as the self -
he regards not the activities as the self,
he regards not the activities as having body,
nor the activities as being in the self,
nor the self as being in the activities.

He regards not consciousness as the self -
he regards not consciousness as the self,
he regards not consciousness as having body,
nor consciousness as being in the self,
nor the self as being in consciousness.

That is how, housefather, there is no person-pack view."

"Whence comes the worthy Isidatta,[4] my lord?"

"I come from Avanti,[5] housefather."

"Lord, there is at Avanti
a clansman named Isidatta,
an [196] unseen friend of ours,
who has gone forth (from the household life).

Has your reverence seen him?"

"I have, housefather."

"Pray where, lord, does that venerable one now dwell?"

At these words the venerable Isidatta was silent.

"Is youx reverence the worthy[6] Isidatta?"

"I am, housefather."

"Then may the worthy Isidatta take his pleasure at Macchikasaṇḍa.

Lovely is Wild Mango Grove!

I will do my best to supply the worthy Isidatta
with the requisites of robes
and alms
and lodging,
of comforts
and medicines in time of sickness."

"That is kindly said, housefather."[7]

§

Thereupon Citta, the housefather, was glad
of what was said by the venerable Isidatta
and welcomed it.

Then with his own hand
he served and satisfied those elder brethren
with food both hard and soft.

And those elder Brethren,
having eaten their fill,
withdrew their hands from their bowls,
rose up
and went away.

Then the venerable chief elder
said to the venerable Isidatta: -

"Well for you, friend,
that this question arose.

This question did not occur to me.

Therefore, friend Isidatta,
if on another occasion such a question arises,
do you reply in like manner."

Then the venerable Isidatta,
having set his lodging in order,
took bowl and outer robe
and departed from Macchikasaṇḍa,
and in thus departing from Macchikasaṇḍa
he was gone for good
and came not back any more.

"antedating this collection". All suttas antidated all the collections. Its: "Antedating the occurances depicted in this sutta."

— p.p.

[1] The well-known first Suttanta of D. 1 (Dialog. 1). Preached in the early days of the Master, this must have been often repeated, so as to be familiar to brethren and laymen alike, antedating this collection.

[2] Sakkāya-diṭṭhi. Cf. K.S. iii, 134, 153 n. [Ed.: note is to § 103]

[3] Cf. K.S. iii, 3.

[4] See Brethren, 107. He had been, by correspondence, the 'unseen friend,' referred to here, of Citta, who had informed him of the Norm. He then became ordained, acquired super-knowledge, visited the Master, and became Arahant. Cf. AA. 387.

[5] Avanti is north of the Vinhya Mts., the site of the school founded by Mahā-Kaecāna. See Rhys Davids' Buddhist India, p. 1.

[6] Ayya

[7] Kalyāṇaṇ vuccati Formula for a polite refusal, acceptance always being by silence.

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