Saɱyutta Nikāya
II. Nidāna Vagga
12. Nidāna Saɱyutta
7. Mahā Vagga
The Book of the Kindred Sayings
Part II. The Book Called the Nidāna-Vagga
Containing Kindred sayings on Cause
and Other Subjects
12. The Kindred Sayings on Cause
7. The Great Chapter
Sutta 68
Kosambī Suttaɱ
Kosambī
Translated by Mrs. Rhys Davids
Assisted by F. L. Woodward
Originally Published by
The Pali Text Society
Public Domain
[1][than][bodh] Thus have I heard:
The venerable Musīla
and the venerable Saviṭṭha
and the venerable Nārada
and the venerable Ānanda
were once staying at Kosambī
in Ghosita Park.
Now the venerable Saviṭṭha said thus
to the venerable Musīla:-
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that decay-and-death is conditioned by birth?"
[82] "Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
decay-and-death is conditioned by birth."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that birth is conditioned by becoming?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
birth is conditioned by becoming."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that becoming is conditioned by grasping?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that becoming is conditioned by grasping."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that grasping is conditioned by craving?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that grasping is conditioned by craving."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that craving is conditioned by feeling?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that craving is conditioned by feeling."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that feeling is conditioned by contact?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that feeling is conditioned by contact."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that contact is conditioned by sense?"
Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that contact is conditioned by sense."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that sense is conditioned by name-and-shape?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that sense is conditioned by name-and-shape."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that name-and-shape is conditioned by consciousness?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that name-and-shape is conditioned by consciousness."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that consciousness is conditioned by activities?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that consciousness is conditioned by activities."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that activities are conditioned by ignorance?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that activities are conditioned by ignorance."
§
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of birth,
decay-and-death ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of birth,
decay-and-death ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of becoming,
birth ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of becoming,
birth ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of grasping,
becoming ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of grasping,
becoming ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of craving,
grasping ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of craving,
grasping ceases?"
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of feeling,
craving ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of feeling,
craving ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of contact,
feeling ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of contact,
feeling ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of sense,
contact ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of sense,
contact ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of name-and-shape,
sense ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of name-and-shape,
sense ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of consciousness,
name-and-shape ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of consciousness,
name-and-shape ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of activities,
consciousness ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of activities,
consciousness ceases."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of ignorance,
activities cease?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of ignorance,
activities cease."
"Apart, friend Musīla, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Musīla
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
the ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
the ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna."
"Well then, the venerable Musīla is Arahant,
for whom the intoxicants are perished."
When this was said the venerable Musīla became silent.
§
Then the venerable Nārada
spake thus to the venerable Saviṭṭha:-
"It were well, friend Saviṭṭha,
if I were given these questions.
Ask me these questions.
I will give answer to you thereon."
"Take, friend Nārada, these questions.
I ask them of the venerable Nārada.
Let the venerable Nārada give answer to these questions.
[83] Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that decay-and-death is conditioned by birth?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
decay-and-death is conditioned by birth."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that birth is conditioned by becoming?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
birth is conditioned by becoming."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that becoming is conditioned by grasping?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that becoming is conditioned by grasping."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that grasping is conditioned by craving?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that grasping is conditioned by craving."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that craving is conditioned by feeling?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that craving is conditioned by feeling."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that feeling is conditioned by contact?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that feeling is conditioned by contact."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that contact is conditioned by sense?"
Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that contact is conditioned by sense."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that sense is conditioned by name-and-shape?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that sense is conditioned by name-and-shape."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that name-and-shape is conditioned by consciousness?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that name-and-shape is conditioned by consciousness."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that consciousness is conditioned by activities?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that consciousness is conditioned by activities."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that activities are conditioned by ignorance?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
that activities are conditioned by ignorance."
§
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of birth,
decay-and-death ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of birth,
decay-and-death ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of becoming,
birth ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of becoming,
birth ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of grasping,
becoming ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of grasping,
becoming ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of craving,
grasping ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of craving,
grasping ceases?"
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of feeling,
craving ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of feeling,
craving ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of contact,
feeling ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of contact,
feeling ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of sense,
contact ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of sense,
contact ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of name-and-shape,
sense ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of name-and-shape,
sense ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of consciousness,
name-and-shape ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of consciousness,
name-and-shape ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of activities,
consciousness ceases?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of activities,
consciousness ceases."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
from the ceasing of ignorance,
activities cease?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
from the ceasing of ignorance,
activities cease."
"Apart, friend Nārada, from your belief,
apart from your inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on,
and approval of an opinion,
has the venerable Nārada
as his very own
the knowledge
that:-
the ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna?"
"Apart from belief, friend Saviṭṭha,
apart from inclination,
apart from hearsay,
apart from argument as to method,
apart from reflection on
and approval of an opinion,
I know this,
I see this:-
the ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna."
"Well then, the venerable Nārada is Arahant,
for whom the intoxicants are perished."
"'The ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna':-
I have well seen this, friend,
by right insight as it really is,
and yet I am not Arahant
for whom the intoxicants are perished.
It is just as if, friend,
there were in the jungle-path a well,
and neither rope nor drawer of water.
And a man should come by
foredone with heat,
far gone with heat,
weary,
trembling,
athirst.
He should look down into the well.
Verily in him would be the knowledge:-
Water!
- yet would he not be in a position to touch it.
Even so, friend, I have well seen by right insight
as it really is
that the ceasing of becoming is Nibbāna,
and yet I am not Arahant
for whom the intoxicants are perished."
When this was said the venerable Ānanda
spake thus to the venerable Saviṭṭha:-
"Holding the view you do, friend Saviṭṭha,
what say you to the venerable Nārada?"
"Holding the view I do, friend Ānanda,
I say nothing that is not lovely and good
of the venerable Nārada."
